more own a gun. was it could? to like this? that is our show tonight. [applause] >> and now john stossel. john: food can kill. people will eat the wrong stuff may get sick. it's while most everyone says we need government toet some limits. make sure there is not bacteria in your food or dangerous chemicals. to make sure food companies tell you what is in their food and how fattening it is. state legislator felix ortiz ha done that in new york city. he got trans fat man, calorie counts posted at mcdonald's and other fast-food places now he wants a ban on adding too much salt. so ou think he saved lives?
>> absolutely. john: okay. a farmer. he grows vegetables dollar raises cows, chickens, and pigs. i assume you want the people who buy your beef and pork to be safe. so don't we owe him a vote of thanks for saving this? >> no. i would say you're killing me out here. trying to get my stuff to market. this plethora of government regulations, you know, is killing our farm and our ability to come to rket. john: you are just a greedy businessman and don't care if people died. let's go through some of the ways that assemblyman ortiz has saved the chance that band. >> that is old news. john: you wann a tax on junk food. >> the carbohydrate product that is in the market. we are giving the consumer is the choice to a choose what they want to consent.
john: good food would cost less. degree food would cost more. >> that is totally correct. john: orange juice and apple seized on food? >> well, i don't believe they are. john: more sugar than coke and pepsi. >> well, we will cross that bridge when we get here, but i will tell you this much. i like my apples and oranges. john: you also helped get to these calorie counts posted at fast food places. >> that is correct. john: go into mcdonald's. no, this merely calories command that helps people. >> we have monies, they make their choices based on what they see. we have managed now to see a wonderfulnumber of decrease in people suffering from obesity and diabetes. john: decreasing. >> moving in that direction. to mcdonald's and burger king and others are more responsible. john: a real study has been done
on this. you can say, it doesn't cost that much to put up a little entellusith a calorie count is. and why you did a test. ey went into fast food places that the law went into effect. oh, yes. great that we can see the calorie count and they're paying more attention. indelicate the receipts and saw that they were eating more calories. >> well, let me just say that the best thing that we can do is step get the consumer the choice, the option. john: wrote a book titled everything i want to do is illegal. [laughter] >> right. [applause] de. john: what is your point? >> my point is that every time the government penetrates into the food system the abuses mount up from the big guys and little guys like us get routed back from the table do to a smothering bunch of regulations.
government interventions come at the result of wind things it out of control. i health care costs to go $150 billion. john: it's his body. he can make his own stupid choices. >> i never believe that i'm hurting anybody's freedom. john: youare banning things. you support the ban on the soft drinks. >> well, the big soft drink is important to realize that we need said -- you have children at the age of nine. they suffer from hypertension as a result of too much soda, too much sugar as a result that people ae not taking their own
responsibility. that is when government jump into it. john: how can you say you're leaving them your toys? you're not. >> well, they should be glad. we're trying to do it. john: this is dangerous. too big. >> depending howmany of thoe you have. john: illegal. >> that's the reason i have the surcharge on it, to make sure that people get discouraged from getting this kind of items. john: and you want to -- [talking over each other] john: it baena said drink this size. >> -- [talking over each other] >> i think that is a great idea, and by will continue to support my mayor. john: you want to ban extra salt. >> this is a very important item that we need to discuss and talk about it. when you talk about having too much sodium on products, were talking about a stroke, a
hypertension. >> governments can tell you you can't eat the soda or salt, the same government that kentucky you can't an alternative treatments for cancer therapy. a government that decides that it can tell you that you cannot make a risky decision is a government that can deny you the right to make al decision. you cannot have both. john: last point. you support the mayor. you support his ban on that basis, shelters. one man who donated for 20 years was turned away when he tried to give bagels and carrots. you didn't not know the salt and sugar content. [laughter] >> let me just make something very clear about what i support or don't support. sometimes i go to restaurants and have my own choices.
i asked the waitress, can you tell the chef to make sure there is no salt and my items. and i make thosechoices. and -- john: you don't want salt i can't have solved? >> you still will have your choice, but at the same -- [talking over each other] >> limit the amount of salt into your plate. and saving your life in the life of the people of this nation. john: thank you so much, felix, for seven my life. joel, thanks for giving me more chois, which i prefer. currently is our government are certain it is their job to help us exercise, eat less and lose weight. more must be one to get healthy food and support neighborhoods. my next guest is the author of the hundred six which says that the and salty foods are drugs like cocaine and math and need to be kept away from kids. dr. pam pq teaches medicine at the university of maryland actually believes that
food is like coke and mass. >> not food, just certain foods. and -- john: salty and fatty. >> sherry, vatican and salty foods that have been studied by world-class scientists at the national institutes of health. what is fascinating,what todo with all of that. i will tell you something. i have been staunch allies about this. john: what does that mean? >> board is the role of government when you find that that n certain people when you have exposure to a lot of these refined process foods, not apples and oranges internet and the rest of it, but the other stuff. in certain people it really, you know, based upon very credible brain scans and excellent work really works on the brain and the reward center just l
ere. let's just say we take that right thre. if you say that i cannot have a 16-ounce, what am i going to do if i have an issue like food addiction? i'm going to score in some other way. you can charge me, make me run around with 8 ounces instead of 16 ounces, but somehow i am going to score this thing. you cannot do a thing about that john: you are against the ridiculous soda size thing, but you do say in your book, make three programs available to get people to detox and get off these foods. >> i didn't say it was government. i said, can we have programs. there are already in existence right now, all done by private organizations. overeaters anonymous, food addicts anonymous. john: not governments. >> nothing to do with government . and we actually agree about that i told you [laughter] john: un delighteded.
how about the other issue. i am told there are food deserts' where poor people live and we have to invite supermarkets in, give them tax breaks or maybe pay for it because they cannot get fresh food. that is why they are fat. >> ever since, you know, that original ms. -- missed came out about the food doesn't we found out that by doing research it really was not true at all. and they actually do have the supermarkets. you still have a choice, and we are right back to where we go again. i want a ground surge of citizens out there who are highly enlightened about this too can finally get on out and do something for themselves. they are the ones with the choice here, and they need to be doing that for their families as well. john: voluntary. >> nutritionists. john: thank you. coming up, our taste test.
to you prefer beef steak or zebra steak? our audience will weigh in. also, are you ready to eat some swine? [applause] ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the mercedes-benz winter event is back, with the perfect vehicle that's just right for you, no matter which list you're on. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho, ho! [ male announcer ] lease a 2013 ml350 for $599 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer.
cannot talk about it bbecause they have sued abc. it is outrageous. this company secretly peddles this horrible thing called pink slime, and they wot talk about it now that they were caught by those heroes at abc? except, speaking of food but, what i just said now is of her bunk. and meat is safe. what abc calls pincus line is safe. explain. >> well, when the polite word. abc went on a crusade. three nights in of rope. the first three minutes of their broadcast they said that term. john: well, why shouldn't they? >> because it's not. it's ground beef. i have been to the factory where they manufacture this.
i am a city boy. john: there is some of it in here. i'm going to eat. >> we have all eaten it. a couple of activists did not like this scientific process that separates the beef trimming so that you get the remaining ground beef. the point of this term deliberately to try to hurt this product and company. john: the company was doing something unique, taking the last bit of a term of meat off the bone by heating a slightly. that saved moey and the environment. >> and not only that, tired of hearing that argumt. everybody, abc constantly, eat a leaner beef, worry about your health. so when we tried to eat it did take that away as well. john: not using it wastes 5,000 cows a day. >> they said the term pink slime
178 times either on their broadcast or with jim antelope. john: then they started taking it back. >> they started out. this is classic. they said, a term commonly used. then, of course, what you find is it is not. "washington post," new york times, one or two times at most that they had ever used it prior to that. john: what is the agenda? >> well, always the activists who are pushing against the food in general. what happened was this comes from a movie. a lot of the bad things in society come from movies. shooting to put out by participant media so there were so proud of this process just amazing to look at. thee let these people and the videotape. you don't dare let anybody
videotape anything because they demonized. john: the company closed three out of four plants, laid-off workers. >> in the economic down is far worse than that. john: has not been a single incident of anybody being hurt. and what the industry calls it is just lean beef trimmings or finely textured. no slimyhan other parts of beef. >> the company here has received awards for how good a job they do for consumer safety. it was just one constant is a job. john: and that the company is suing bc. i don't like that. that is saying we disagree and you should just shut up. there ought to be some other way to fight back. but the free speech, we have a right to be foolish. >> they don't have a right to slander or misstate things. john: somebody was. we reported that. >> and the reason why they sued for over a billion dollars, the reason why they sued, we told
you this was factually incorrect. we told you you were disparaging our product. what they tried to dubai targeting the supermarkets and the companies may use the product, they're trying to shut them down. john: for the record, if you are upset about what abc said, you should know that there is all kinds of stuff in food that probably would bother you more. the fda says in a jar of mushrooms the sizthere can legally be no more than 20 maggots. and a box of raisins there can be no more than 35 fruit fly eggs. and this much pasta can have up to 450 bug parts. i'm not saying any of these do, but that is the law. most of these products have been set parts, things that are far grocer then finally textured be. it is an organization that wants
to get you, and it will. >> they did. thank you. i invited my old abc bosses to come on this program in response, but they did not respond. coming up, a taste test. passing out samples of zebra and antelope meet. which tastes better? should we even eat that? if so, then what about a horse or dog? what are the limits? that is next. want to try to crack it? yeah, that's the way to do it! now we need a little bit more... [ male announcer ] at humana, we understand the value of qualittime and personal attention. which is why we are proud to partner with health care professionals
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conventional wism says it is not right to eat a zebra or a water buffalo or a horse. so how many of you are repulsed or bothered by the idea and would not do our taste test? a few of you. okay. it is just wrong. well, that is bought, says the chef at beaver creek ranch in texas. beavercreek is a resort where guests pay to have zebra, water buffalo, and this cute animal. they eat what they kill command they eat it after it has been cut by the chef. so at their ranch people come for this. they are not squeamish. >> right. fourteen different varieties of animals. pick out which one you want to hunt for. the harvest the animal, bring it back and cook it. john: people say it tastes good.
>> and it's better for you because it is leaner. i have been a chef for years. it beef from the grocery store verses cooking as zebra, if you cook it and put it on the grill there is so much more fat. it's a lot more lane. you have to do more to it, baby it, tenderize it. john: lean means tough. >> but if you add fat to it, good fat like a jam to blackberry jam and coated with that and then grow it in you get a whole different taste and health-conscious. john: you put no limit on what you would eat. horse, dog, cat. john: can you understand why some people are put off? >> i do. john: before tonight's show we
cut some zebra and a kind of antelope. and, as you saw, we offer samples of it to our audience. which is better? and people tell the difference? we did not tell them. we labeled the meet a, b, and see. let me ask you. who like a? b? c? rougy evnly divided. rougy evnly divided. i think see get the [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.
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announcement the american public. >> i would wait until every last shred of evidence is in. john: politicians, as usual, sold us a bill of goods. that is one way to look at it. >> basement we are about to engage in this huge nutritional experiment the american public is the subject and 30 years later we ha gotten sicker and sicker. john: there is much more information about nutrition and not getting fat come and we are fatter. >> we are more diabetic and fatter. the it can all be fixed with good science. john: you have a book called "good calories, bad calories." but i know that acalorie is a
calorie. >> the reason we get that is because we take in more energy than we expected. it becomes a unit of heat. protein, fat, the different types of carbohydrates, the glucose from fructose sugar, they all have different effects. whether or not you will store calories as fat order there will not the calories come up with a hormonal effects of the food. how much energy bring to us. john: but the u.s. department of health says a calorie is a calorie. >> it just hasnn't been tested. one of the things we did when i
started this organization. john: this being? >> the nutritionist study. we went back to world war ii to every scientist that attempted to answer that question. we found 82 studies that have attempted to answer that. they were all probably the same limitations and problems. in 2012, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence. a calorie is not a calorie, necessarily. john: one thing that absolutely must be true if you should eat less fat. yet you eat lots of fat. and you're a doctor. a stanford doctor. what's that about? >> like i said, three or four years ago, when i got to the point where ms. chu overweight and my wife said i needed to be a little less not so thin, i realized that i probably had a carbohydrate intolerance issues in all of whole grains and things that i was eating were probably leading to be becoming
fatter. and if i stripped that stuff t of my diet and i ate more fat, believe it or not, all of the metabolic derangement that was underpinning my propensity to gain weight would go away. lo and behold, it did. john: you are not fat now by getting fat. the question is, what happened to peter? what happens to a lot of people in a totally? they get rid of the carbohydrates in the diet. they add back fat and they lose weight. is that a bizarre anecdotal event that just happened? is a common? maybe it's the nutritional vice we are all getting is wrong. >> back in the 60s, these people would eat their carbohydrates, bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, it's all inherently fattening. john: you have a piece of bread and butter in your book. the idea is? >> is used to be that the butter was considered healthy and the
bread was considered fattening. in our government came along and decided that it was the butter that was fattening and the bread that we should all be eating. then i coincides with an obesity epidemic. a. john: they also said the margarine was that view? >> actually they said margarine was good for you. john: they said eggs are terrible, but now they are okay. >> the reason for the living and flopping back and forth is because of the kind of research we do. john: why we do this? this is important. >> we can use laboratory rats. you give them the food and it does what it does anyone even a double-blind test with people. >> yes, it's take this pill or take that pill. when you study nutrition it's actually very hard. he sent people home with a diet book. we really can't measure what we are measuring.
there is a gross incompetence that has led to this ambiguity anyone thank you both. coming up, did you know that the coming budget cuts will tell you? you're going to die of food poisoning? poisoning?the boys use capital one venture miles for their annual football trip. that's double miles you can actually use. tragically, their ddy got sacked by blackouts. but it's our tradition! that's roughing the card holder. but with the capital one venture card you get double miles you can actually use. [ cheering ] any flight, anytime. the scoreboard doesn't lie. what's in your wallet? hut! i have me on my fantasy team.
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john: we are back now with your comments or questions on my death. they includeformer dole and doctor peter, and doctor peake, who says that you can be addicted to food like people are addicted to cocaine. our first question is about modified foods and gm of goods. the people voted no on a, is that terrible? you want to know? is there any hard evidence to support worries over general
foods? >> i say that i should be able to label it as gm all free. weon't need more laws, we need freedom -- john: you can't label it? >> no. we don't need another labeling law. weneed the freedom to do what we were on the label and let the market decide what w want to be one of the good answer. >> what is the idea of empty calories and are they more addicting than healthy calories? >> usually the empty calories are the refined rss. suddenly you when realizing it has no major nutrients come and apologize. hn: we are eating more of this stuff all the time and we are living longer. >> if you want to know something, it's all about choice.
if you want to have that empty calorie on top of a cookie, knock yourself out. as long as you don't end up eating everything checked out around here. some people do that. you just have to use your own common sense. you know your body better than anybody notice. >> [inaudible question] is across-the-board? >> it strikes me is almost impossible to believe that every human being on earth is going to do equally well in the exact same diet i hope that the future of medicine and nutrition is one where we can customize and tailor things bsed upon both people's genetic susceptibility to certain deases, and what we call other genetics, which is other things that influenced you up until this point in life today. >> doctor, what you were saying your ideal diet. is it something you are advocating? >>s interesting.
i think that labels are always a little bit confusing. what i would say is that when i figured out was i had a pretty significant intolerance most of the foods i was eating. wh i when i eat it probably looks a lot like what someone consumed in a paleolithic time. though i don't particularly adhere to a particular set of rules. i will give you an example. i think a hard-core paleolithic person -- for me it does well. it comes back to the theme this theme that we are hearing. at the end, the individual level is where we dig out what works. it's really good to have science that informs us of you know you're making a reasonable starting ss where to go. >> there is one glitch to that. that is you're a guy. when women have been studied with these dietary intakes have had more trouble because women are little bit more carbohydrate extracted. erefore, they will last about, i don't know, several weeks,
even that long, on a strict diet like this only taken about 10% carbohydrate. women start bumping it up a little bit. a lot of this has to do withur blueprint and her makeup. when you look at the research, what we haven't seen enough of is the gender differentiations and what we can now do to be able to help you and customize that based upon gender. john: on that note, we thank you all. coming up, the truth about food safety. if the government has no interest in telling you. ♪ ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ [ male announcer ] oh what fun it is to ride. get the mercedes-benz on your wish lis at the winter event going on now through december 31st.
like the creators of hell. we get the drift. it was bad. then we got billions of dollars of government regulation and that is why coetzee today. uv. no wonder, when republicans proposed amall cutof the funding, hello would poisoning. sanitation costs money. a lack of regulation, a competitive disadvantage. that makes sense. it is food bulk. it's not government that keeps e. coli to a minimum. it is -- and mcdonald's and
jack-in-the-box. they lost millions after food poisoning scandal. here is getting a bad reputation that makes the producers even more careful than government requires them to be. for example, an agriculture department has an army of inspectors eyeballing chickens on assembly lines. they watched each bird looking for visible signs of abnormality. but bacteria is invisible. food producers run much more sophisticated tests on their own. one employee has 2000 more safety regulations passed then the government. a 180-degree steam vacuum. production is checked for sanitaion with microbiology. if anything is detected, they reclaim the equipment. equipment is taken apart to be swat tested. none of that is required, specifically, by the